Mare's Mess

I must disagree with the assertion that "The Left opposes it because George Bush is for it." That's really not giving much credit to left-leaning pacifism. I am a liberal who has stopped identifying myself with the Democratic party specifically because they supported the war in Iraq. I was also very critical of Clinton's bombing raids on Iraq. To assume that liberals' opposition to war is solely a knee-jerk reaction is to greatly underestimate the non-partisan criticism of war that many exercise.

vox isn't talking about you (or other liberals who oppose this war as well as military actions taken by their own party) but you have to admit that many people on the left and right blindly support whatever their party does. if filibusters are going to help their party they believe they are a protected right, if they could hurt their party they see them as obstructionist loopholes that need to be filled. vox is talking about these people who have no principles and are simply knee-jerk. there are a lot of them - dare i say most dems and reps (from which you've stated you have removed yourself)! i heard somewhere - don't know how accurate it was - that clinton dropped more bombs during his presidency than any president before him including bush sr. in the gulf war. even if this isn't accurate, where were all these anti-war liberals when clinton was killing innocent iraqis left and right?

Mare...you need to understand that the "Left" is much different than Clinton or the Democrats. First of all Clinton was very much a moderate, especially in foreign policy and "defense". He was much more conservative than many of those in the Democratic Party. On top of that, the Democratic Party is quite moderate, again, especially in foreign policy matters.

There is little true left wing in the nation. If you are going to compare a "fringe" party like the Libertarian Party to the GOP and the Dems, then you should compare the Green Party also. The Green Party would be the "Left" equivalent of the Libertarian Party.

"Where were all these anti-war liberals when clinton was killing innocent iraqis left and right?"

I already said that I was very critical of Clinton's actions.

Perhaps the problem here is using the word "Left" to refer to the Democratic Party. I think you are absolutely right that both sides (Republicans and Democrats) blindly support whatever actions benefit them at the moment. As Dave points out, there is much more to the liberal Left than the Democratic Party, and attributing the views of a single political party to liberals in general is inaccurate.

Just replace "Left" with "Democrats" or even "Leading Democrats" and I believe the quote you originally cited is absolutely true.

fair enough. i think both the dems and reps are pretty moderate - neither really standing behind the principles they once espoused. i agree that this quote applies more to the political parties than to people who are truly liberal or conservative - the ones who actually believe in principles. i'm afraid that the terms left/right are often used synonymously with reps/dems and many times they aren't synonymous. however, i contend that MOST people who consider themselves to be liberal also consider themselves to be democrats and vice versa with conservatives/republicans. you wouldn't see michael moore making a major motion picture about clinton's military actions.

I content that MOST people who consider themselves to be liberal also consider themselves to be democrats and vice versa...

Part of the reason for this is that we have a distinct two-party system with little choice outside of the Repbublicans and Democrats.

But another part of this is that most "liberals" and "conservatives" in America are really pretty moderate, and their political ideologies do align with the two moderate parties.

There is a small minority in the country who are truly "conservative" or truly "liberal".

i agree.